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In Episode 460 of Hidden Forces, Demetri Kofinas speaks with Professor of International Politics at the Bundeswehr University Munich, Carlo Masala, whose book "If Russia Wins," makes the case for European national rearmament and the urgent need place bell to deter near-term Russian threats against NATO member countries in the absence of American leadership.

Masala and Kofinas spend the first hour of their conversation detailing the scenario Calro puts forward in his roma napoli book—a limited Russian incursion into the Estonian city of Narva. They explore why Carlo thinks that Russia might attempt such an operation, the similarities to and differences from the approach Russia took in Ukraine in 2014, whether NATO's Article 5 commitment would hold in such a scenario, and whether the gradual erosion and eventual destruction of the NATO alliance is the ultimate goal of the Russian Federation, irrespective of who is in office.

The second hour is devoted to a conversation about Europe's defense challenges in the face of a declining American commitment to NATO, the material and financial constraints European nations face in strengthening their deterrent capabilities, the advantages and disadvantages of Russia's conventional and unconventional forces, and the deeper crisis of identity and purpose afflicting Western democracies.

They discuss the immigration debate, culture wars, the failure seattle mariners of democratic leadership in the context of European politics, and what ordinary citizens can do to defend democratic systems in the face of threats, both external and internal.

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00:00 Introduction

02:54 Welcome Carlo Masala

03:41 Reason Behind the Scenario

04:42 Russia's Goal to Destroy NATO

05:47 NATO's Soft Underbellies

08:44 Political Scenario vs. Military Scenario

09:38 End of the War Against Ukraine

10:38 New Russian Leadership

11:28 European Debate on Re-arming

12:57 Historical Analogy: Rhineland

14:51 Russian Strategy in NVA

17:34 NATO's Internal Debate

19:40 Questions on Leadership Transition

20:12 Russia's Neo-Imperial Ambitions

29:03 US Commitment to NATO

32:18 China's Role in Distracting the US

50:52 Topics for the Second Hour

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